Boy, for a professor, you come off rather childish. I understand having a bad day, but this makes it look like you care more about students being there so they can stroke your ego than you care for their education.
It's one thing to announce, at the beginning of a course, that there will be some number of pop-quizzes scheduled randomly throughout the year that may come at any time between the beginning of the lecture and the end of the lecture. It's quite another to punish an otherwise good student because she couldn't read your mind one day.
Lectures exist so that students can learn material. The way you present this episode, it seems that the materiatl is little more than an excuse to lecture. I guess it comes down to this: are you teaching your students useful material or are you teaching them to punch in?
Anonymous, there is a difference between a punishment and a reward. I rewarded the students who were in class that day. No one got punished; no one had points subtracted from their grade.
As for the ego-stroking part of giving a lecture, it is clear that you have never had to give one yourself. Let's not even discuss the hours of preparation that go into a 50-minute lecture nor the public speaking anxiety that a lecturer has (I have) to face every day, nor the fact that my lectures are delivered to students who hate the material I am presenting (cf. public speaking anxiety), but let's talk about the interactions an instructor has with those students that don't go to class.
If you don't go to my lectures and choose to learn it on your own, that's fine by me. You're paying for my expertise and my assistance in learning the material, but if you'd rather struggle through it without my insights then go for it. But then don't come to me later and ask me to regurgitate my lectures for you because you realized too late that you needed my help. There are other students who do come to my lectures who need my help during office hours and they will get my first priority. Perhaps someday you will teach a course and then you will understand the frustration I and every other instructor feels when someone asks, "Did I miss anything?"
Finally, the original post was a marvel about courtesy. In a small classroom, when getting to the door requires that you push past half your classmates and whack each of them with your bookbag, walk between them and the blackboard or between me and the blackboard, and results in furniture reorganization and door slamming, if your intention is to leave early you should (a) inform your instructor because she is not a television set and watching you leave is is both hurtful and anxiety-provoking, and (b) sit near the door.
I do care about my students' educations and I am there to present the material that they need to succeed in their chosen professions. If I didn't care, I wouldn't give a shit about any of this: walking out, not coming to class, and who does or does not receive extra credit.
I hope I cleared all that up for you.
16 comments:
Amen,Angry Professor.
I would also add that people who come and go as they please tend to disrupt the focus of other students, too.
While students leave during my class, and I try to shrug it off and hope they don't come to me at the end of the term with a "did I miss anything?" in email or in the hall (because office hours are just too difficult to attend), I am even more horrified by the fact that I've had students take off during the movie screenings (I teach film classes). I have seen students stand and block the projector, whilenoisily gather their belongings-- because if they're not interested in the movie, nobody is. Now, I can't fathom this: they are taking a film class-- the easiest part of the class should be watching the films, even if they should be taking notes and thinking about the movies. And before Anonymous returns with the "maybe they've seen it before" or "maybe they just don't like the movie" or "why should they be expected to sit through the film-- what business is it of yours?" I will answer:
1. If you've seen a movie before, you are at an advantage when it comes to analysis since you don't need to worry about what happens, but how it happens.
2. If you don't like a film, it's an opportunity to disengage and become all the more analytical-- and to think of why it doesn't work.
3. Why should I care: Well, leaving and disrupting other students' experience of a film is just rude and selfish, and demonstrates a callous disregard of their colleagues, which is a miserable thing to see. Being faced with the entitlement and rudeness of others is depressing to witness. And beyond that, like ngry Professor, I am very much invested in providing the information which will help these students succeed in their chosen career-- plus I hope that those who are production students would end up making good and thoughtful films. And yes, it is frustrating to watch so many students treat college education as a birthright; entitlement doesn't make for good citizens.
Sorry, clearly I need my own blog. I did just post grades and have received complaints from students who can't understand why their failure to hand in certain assignments had any nearing on their grade when the assignments they did complete had received good grades.
This is probably going to be an unpopular response, but it kind of picks up on what someone else said in one of the previous comments. I require students to attend class (lecture, discussion, film, whatever) because, honestly, they are not in as good a position to evaluate what they need to do to succeed in class as I am. I'm not saying I get it right 100% of the time, nor that there aren't any students out there who can blow off all the lectures and do fine, but I can't tailor my course policies to each individual. I require course attendance because in general, students who attend class do much better and learn more than those who don't, and I want my students to learn (even when they themselves might prefer to do something else).
I suppose it might help to add that I teach at a very traditional college - so I'm teaching 18-21 year olds. Even so, though, knowing how to learn is a skill that needs to be acquired, not something that everyone's born knowing.
I should add, too, that requiring attendance isn't actually the same as making sure students show up. The students still have the same choice about whether to come to class or not - I've just made the consequences of their actions very concrete.
Sorry, this is getting a little bit away from the original point about courtesy, with which I completely agree.
New Kid, you are dead-on topic. Anonymous was complaining that my refusing to give an extra credit quiz to a student who had missed class (when the quiz was to reward those who had come to class) was childish on my part.
I agree that instructors are in the best position to determine whether or not attendance is important. My attempt to get kids into class is to give little quizzes. As I remarked earlier, taking attendance would take up a significant portion of my lecture time in most of my classes, so the quizzes are a compromise.
I brought up the courtesy thing again to point out that I don't care whether or not you come to class, but for Pete's sake, don't come just to ruin the experience for everyone else.
An anecdote about whether or not one needs to come to class (since this whole thread has gone beyond the courtesy issue, which is what it was really about.... )
In the course that I co-taught this year, Co-Teacher decided to put all of the lectures on Blackboard ahead of time. He'd started doing this because he once had a learning disabled student who asked for the lectures, and then decided that this would be helpful to everyone. As a result, only about 30 students out of 80 ever came to our class. When exam time came around, I was actually always shocked at how full the room got.
One student remarked on the evals that since we made the lectures available, he saw no need to come to class. Personally, I thought Co-Teachers PPTs were so incoherent that really one would have to come to class, but I guess the students didn't feel that way.
This is why, when I run my own class, I DO NOT make the lectures available online. I often give handouts with an outline to fill in, but mostly just headers w/o content.
Ianqui, you are absolutely right. Ever since I put my overheads online my students stopped coming to class. Even my ESPs and Aliens course is lucky to see 50% attendance. If you were going to skip a class, why would you skip that one?
I've already decided that the online notes have ended. There are a number of good effects that will have, including forcing me to slow down my lectures.
Ha! I just did it: I removed all my online notes.
Boy, that feels good.
I don't understand these maggots when it comes to attendance. Why don't they just go and quit school and become Bill Gates? Why bother with college at all if you're so damn brilliant you can learn anything on your own?
I'll tell ya why. Most content is actually difficult and simply reading it in a book or from notes isn't enough; good instruction is key to college courses.
I came from a physical sciences background about 10 years ago and my professors weren't so tolerant about attendance. They were actually kind of caustic and would beat you down a bit for not attending. I'm not saying that was the best way to handle it but the importance of attendance is slipping by too many.
I'm a senior in CS, w/ a minor in English and French, also a new-comer here. I just want to suggest that while removing the online notes will affect a certain excuse for the under-performers, it may also impact the others. My fave CS prof. actually prefers students not take heavy notes during class, preferring that he have full attention at that time.. which is reasonable, considering the large amount of in-class "hacking" he performs. Certainly, stuff you won't find in any textbook that I've read.
I should note that I have a good record of horrible abseentism in my humanities classes, with no online notes.. but if you "get" Chaucer, you get Chaucer, same with Musset. Even better if it's "original", and you do "get it."
Your students, Dear C., were, however, far ruder than I would be, or basic humanity would dictate. When I don't show, I just don't show. I approve heartily of your last minute "gimme-quiz" - perfectly appropriate, under these specific circumstances, and a boon to the conscientious.
Some students have many other things transpiring, and who should not be penalized. BUT.. the grade should always reflect their performance, which may not be good. No worries, there, should you have (yoda.)
About the rudeness, I dunno, maybe lock the door after the beginning of class and always give the quiz at the last 5 minutes, or so? It's been done to me, and a lesson was rather learned. ;)
In my language classes (which are the only ones I have) I got SO SICK of students wandering in late and having to have everything explained to them (again, and again, and again...) - or worse, wandering in and instantly falling asleep, or chatting with friends they haven't seen for a week. So I started, this year, giving a very small quiz at the beginning of every class. It is a very easy quiz for students who come to class. I tell the questions at the END of the previous class, and the answers are embedded in the lesson. Results in these quizzes count for about 30% of the overall grade.
Since I started this, several chronic latecomers have stopped coming at all (they saw their cumulative grades and gave up), and hardly anybody is ever late. Or absent, for that matter. It's amazing.
But for language classes attendance is essential, especially here (in Japan) where they're not exposed to English anywhere else. They're also hard to grade. Basically, this way I'm grading them on attending, paying attention, and learning at least three things per class. (These are classes of 30-odd students - I don't do more than three questions per class.)
I once had a professor (in a NZ university) deal in an interesting way with some students who were chatting to each other in the back row. He stopped, told them that if they wanted to listen they could stay but if they didn't they could leave. If they continued chatting during the lecture HE would leave. He waited until they were embarrassed, then continued. I wanted to cheer.
guy, You're absolutely right, and if it aids to tell, I regret every moment that I've spent watching Seinfeld re-runs which might have been spent in class. (not at the same time as class, just otherwise)
I'm intellectually poorer for each class I've missed, and I'm sure I've missed a lot... I may be lucky, but I've never had a prof. that I didn't stand somewhat in awe of, with respect to their field.
In regards to language classes, it >is< doubly necessary to attend. I can read French like hell, but try dropping me off in Paris... (ouch)...Maybe it's 'cuz I'm at a state university and "clever-enough" students can muddle through...
My point being solely that one can "muddle through" with dedication, notwithstanding the regrets one will likely have at 40.. or even 29, for that matter. ;)
Oh, and that in certain courses, online notes are a boon for all students, though it may be rope with which the genuinely uncaring may hang themselves.. :)
Let's not forget that in the real world to which these students hope to graduate 'punching in' is not only a requirement, but may at times be more important than the work you do. Visibility keeps you in your boss's mind when the next round of promotions becomes available. Conspicuous absences, even when approved, can hurt your career. Don't try to fool yourself into thinking otherwise.
When I was a student, I hated the latecomers/early leavers/chit-chatters as much as the instructors did. One philosophy prof posted his lecture materials online after class each day, but only in outline format. If you wanted the full-meal deal, you had to come to class. He told me he wanted to give students a study reference so they knew what was covered and where their gaps in understanding might be, but that the students still needed to do the work. It was fabulous and really useful to me.
Sure, anonymous, which, in the CS curriculum, is why I'm unsurprised to find the door locked in the face of late-comers. (Or the prof.'s might just be big dicks with a good excuse - itself likely a preparation for the biz world.. but who in CS now actually expects to find themselves in that milieu, these days...)
guy, I believe you fully, but I'm 5th year and expect no more in this field (unfortunately enough). And I'm only taking those particular courses with a previously existing interest.. and have never asked for the outstretched hand, excepting instances which fall roughly outside of the regular lecture material.. (example: "I know I've missed a class or two but would you care to discuss the fuzzy relationship between "Gamelyn" and the "Robin Hood" myths", with my Chaucer prof.)
And lemme clear a misconception, I >never< contribute in class unless it's to clear something up for myself, I couldn't care less about the other students.. they're largely rude, and I don't care for rude people. Like life, it is an individual struggle. One should not, I feel, penalize a student for quietness.. although I'll offer an answer when the silence seems to grow painful. It doesn't mean noone is listening, and, eventually, sympathizing.
But, as I had hoped my last post might have made clear, some classes can be skipped, and others not. I don't mean to imply that all humanities might be.. Indeed, with two exceptions, those have been my favorite courses. It's why one might keep following them, after the freshman requirements. And, of course, if a syllabus directs a certain level of exactitude in attendence, that ball, later, belongs to you.. :)
One other minor point: I am often concerned, when I do actually speak to a prof., that it might be construed as a sort of effort to influence my grade. Mayve because I see others do it, shamelessly, so frequently. If I >need< to speak to the prof. for some reason, I of course feel free to, but otherwise it almost feels like bad form. Any comments I ususally save for after the grades have been released. And, when possible, I feel I get more working through confusing shit for myself. Although I realize that that likely sounds vaguely idiotic to the prof.'s in the audience. Just saying. ;)
No, Endit. The difference between asking a clarifying question and complaining about a grade is patently obvious. Of course you get a lot out of working things out for yourself, and the knowledge you obtain that way is yours forever. But you are paying your instructors to light your way. Make sure you're getting your money's worth.
Bravo! I just found your response after fussing to my boyfriend about the anonymous guy's rude entry. I was hoping that you would address his comment in more detail. It's great to see that you don't disappoint. ;)
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