I just received email from a student who has applied to our graduate program. He is interested in working with me, if he were admitted. The young man will be graduating from a small bible college in the Midwest. I did a quick search of the faculty in the college that will grant his degree: most of them are also alums of this same college. They proudly advertise how their students will earn a degree in [Social Science] that will also bring them closer to Christ. One professor talks on her website about how she frequently uses in-class prayer to help her decide what material to cover.
I don't care which religious organizations my graduate students belong to, but I do care about the quality of their undergraduate education and their ability to transition to a research institution. This particular college does not seem to be preparing their students well, although I have yet to see this young man's application materials.
My very first graduate student was from a very small bible college, and he looked great on paper. He was admitted to our program without hesitation. Unfortunately, he had tremendous difficulty settling into an urban environment. He had difficulty accepting me as an instructor and advisor, because his church adhered closely to St. Paul the Misogynist's admonition that women remain silent and learn from their husbands. When I not infrequently erupted in profanity, he was visibly distressed. (I'm not a jerk. My eruptions were never directed at him, and I didn't realize why he was upset until it was too late.) Add to all this the fact that his Bachelor's degree in [Social Science] didn't adequately prepare him for graduate work in [Social Science], and it is no surprise that he quickly flunked out of the program.
I swore never to make the same mistake again, both for my and the student's sakes. I doubt, however, that the student who contacted me today would see my unwillingness to consider admitting him as being in his best interest. Rather, I am certain, he would see my decision as a kind of religious discrimination. I worry that I would be unable to defend myself from such charges, even though I would have no problem admitting someone with a degree from Notre Dame, Brigham Young, Pepperdine, Baylor, etc.
Wednesday, January 02, 2008
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22 comments:
Yikes.
What are the odds of this young man being admitted to LSU's [Social Science] graduate program?
I'm not sure that you ought to deny admission on this basis -- if the student looks good on paper, then they should be admitted --if they don't, then you have an easier out than your post implies.
If you've developed a set of admissions criteria that excludes students from small colleges, then follow them -- but, the fact of the matter is that you can't know that this student holds the same views that were a problem for your first student. Further, if they do hold those views and qualify for graduate school, then perhaps the student deserves a chance to have those views challenged.
The thing is, you don't know why the student went to the small Bible college in the first place, nor do you know whether or not they've accepted the ideals that are troubling.... perhaps the students parents would only pay for small bible school? Does their application include a large academic scholarship?? If so, then perhaps this small bible school was all the student could afford --
I do think that if the student is admitted, you should have a chat with them early in the program and relay the story of your first graduate student. Perhaps you could even find a chance to do so if the applicant comes for a visit -- just so that they'll be making an informed decision about whether or not to join the program.
I have little experience with graduate admissions, so it's hard to say, but the first question is whether your willingness to work with them is separate from the admissions itself? If it isn't, then there must be some standards -- spoken, written or otherwise -- by which the department allows faculty to make these decisions. Are they any help?
I have to disagree with the comment from inside the philosophy factory. If you take this student, he should be treated like everyone else, not told in the beginning that you have doubts about his ability to manage in the program.
You might want to re-think your willingness to take students from BYU. Their faculty is comprised of people willing to forgo alcohol, coffee, and tea, and they will give good grades and glowing reccomendations to just about anyone, it seems.
I wouldn't admit the student. You have some back story experience to go on--use it. We've all had students that 'look good on paper' but turn out to be duds. I've learned to be extremely careful when taking on graduate students. I say no more often than yes these days. My biggest filter is now looking for the entitlement generation students who fit the definition....just today I had one graduate student explain to me why he couldn't turn in grades for a lab section prior to break because he left town, didn't know that grades were due, and couldn't find an appropriate English version of excel at the internet cafes in Amsterdam to turn in grades on time. Oh, okay. I'll take care of it. Not.
Well, I'm glad to see that my religious undergraduate institution made your "okay" list! :)
I'm not sure that this is necessarily a religious question, although you're right that it will be construed that way down the line. Would you have a problem admitting someone from a non-rigorous, degree-mill state school that's one step up from a community college? I'm guessing that many of those students would be equally (or more) unprepared for graduate work in the field.
If this student is from a different bible college than the student in your previous experience, though, I think you should give him the benefit of the doubt until you get a look at his admissions file. As ITPF points out, very intelligent, capable students do end up at schools like that for a wide variety of reasons. It's possible that he has a great professor or two who have prepared him well. But if his writing sample, transcript, etc. indicate otherwise, you're not discriminating.
It depends on the department, Trystero - BYU has some good ones!
See if he makes the admissions standards, and share your doubts with the admissions committee (but not the student). You could perhaps say something along the lines of, you may want to be sure there are several people you'd be interested in working with, since many new graduate students develop different/new interests once start their programs, and since professors do move. Bottom line is he needs to pick a program at this point, not a single professor.
Except that as you yourself have pointed out, the question here is not of religion, but rather competence. Some more research on this "small Bible college" is needed.
Surely there is some way to find out how it is ranked academically.
Well, is there an interview? Because maybe you could erupt into profanity, he could pray over it, and then he'd get the hell out of your face. It would be a nice self selection. Otherwise, just pick someone more qualified- this guy may be qualified, but there's always someone more qualified.
Does Small Bible College have any nationally recognized accreditations? What about his GREs, how do they compare to your admissions pool? Do your appications include any statement of purpose that can allow you to assess how he thinks about social science?
I am in the fortunate position to be in an economics department. So one of our criteria is math literacy (calculus, linear algebra: functional analysis is definitely a plus). Candidates from these "small colleges" are usually very short on these type of courses.
On the other hand, I have to agree with AP: Sometimes fundies make problems. Once we got complaints from some of the foreign grad students: One of the colleagues persistently told them that they will go to hell because they are not (or the wrong type of christians).
But I still think that one should not exclude students from small fundie colleges per se: Only because one gets a fanatic sometimes is a risk of life - the same as getting a chinese student who got the TOEFL or GRE score with bribes.
Either way, the name of the game is documentation. If said student isn't really qualified to be hired, write out why -- and be as specific as possible. If you can articulate it, you can argue it, when and if the student claims religious discrimination.
If the student is taken on, be really clear and specific about dutie4s and what they may entail, and emphasize your school's diversity/tolerance policy.
I once had a Fundie student completely screw up a lit seminar because "fiction was of the devil!" I swear, if it wasn't the Bible,it wasn't worth reading. He came in with a note from his pastor explaining that he couldn't read "Last Exit to Brooklyn" because it would put his soul in danger of Hell.
He wouldn't drop the course, but continued to proselytize. Turned out the syllabus saved my ass because it was spelled out that students were expected to read critically and analyze various works, regardless of whether they agreed with them or not.
I am with Z about ensuring wide interest in the student. In such cases I also do phone interviews. This has convinced several applicants that they really don't work with me after all -- to some I look better on paper than in person!
I'm fascinated! From the vantage point of my Advanced Age, I see the aforementioned Entitlement (extraordinarily unattractive, might I add) and a young person combining Fundamentalism and Entitlement is one scary concept. However, I concur with Crankyprof--there are surely policies and credentials you can point to if necessary. (I guess I'd be for waiting and seeing; this person might indeed surprise you in a positive way.) But people who cry "discrimination" deserve (you should pardon the expression) short shrift. I'll "watch this space."
Thanks for all the comments. As I said, I haven't yet seen his application materials, so my musings may not be relevant at all. (In fact, he has failed to respond to my email in which I ask him about his undergraduate program.)
late side note--AP, not to critique--but since you are analyzing the situation thoroughly, have you already considered what difference it makes that the previous student was your very first grad student? That is, now that you are more experienced in managing students, and (I'm assuming) feeling more established, things could play out differently.
Just mentioning a potential variable I hadn't seen you address.
I would say no---though it is not about the god bothering. On the basis that his school is not well known enough to risk wasting resources on him.
I would tell the young man, sorry but if you want to go to Grad School you went to the wrong undergraduate school, they are not well known and hence a bad risk.
Hell, I would say no to any small school I had not heard of before--they could be as secular as they wanted to be. Go to a university (perhaps name some religious and secular ones local to him) and get some credits that we and others can trust. This is good advice even if he chooses to go elsewhere.
I think you should look at individual cases. I know people who went to such schools who later rocked the PhD world. Sometimes people end up at such a college by parental pressure at age 18, but they still have much promise as scholars.
Wow. So much prejudice in these replies. I can't believe so many academics are that obsessed with the "name" of the school-- especially considering how much academia claims to be trying to pursue social justice, societal equity, critical thinking, etc.! How is pre-judging someone based on their academic institution at all showing any of those values??
Wow, you just outed yourself as a bigot. Feel any shame? Just a touch? Didn't think so....
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